It’s been a while since I railed against the Pennsylvania Liquor Control Board.
Not that they haven’t deserved a good railing in the interim, I’ve just been busy with other topics, and the PLCB has been busy raiding PA bars at great taxpayer expense and with no justifiable reason, so they’ve been dealing with plenty of bad press anyway.
But this week, something got published that I had to rail against. Because, quite honestly, the news is an embarrassment for Pennsylvania taxpayers whose hard-earned cash is going to help fund a government that is supposed to be controlling wine sales in the state, but instead is taking a puke all over customer service and adding almost no value to the average PA consumer.
This news comes by way of Lew Bryson’s excellent blog Why The PLCB Should Be Abolished (hey, at least you know where he stands), recapitulating a Scranton Times-Tribune blog article by David Falchek. In said blog post, Falchek describes a friend’s encounter at a PLCB wine & spirits store in which a PLCB employee denied the existence of Cabernet Franc.
Not the existence of a particular bottling or brand of Cabernet Franc. The employee denied the existence of Cabernet Franc itself.
Yes, I am totally serious, and No, I have not been drinking…
What might be more fascinating than the arrogance and lack of knowledge in the case of this PLCB employee is the irony that Cabernet Franc might be the most promising red variety being cultivated for wine in PA.
Falchek’s article quotes the exchange like this:
PA resident: “I’m looking for cabernet franc.”
PLCB store employee: “Well, there is no such wine.”
PA resident: “Yes, there is. I’ve heard of it before and I just read about it in the paper.”
PLCB store employee: “Well, it was either wrong or you misread it. There’s no such wine.”
What. The. FU*K?!???
You mean all that time I was drinking Cab Franc, I was in the Matrix or soemthing? Shit, that’s trippy!
Let’s say, for the sake of argument, that I opened a wine shop in San Francisco, or New York, or Chicago. One day, you come in looking for a Virginia Cab Franc, or a Bourguiel, Chinon, or (if you’re feeling well-to-do) some Cheval Blanc. And I not only tell you that you can’t have any, I deny the very existence of Cab Franc wines entirely.
Here’s a simple question:
How long would you expect my store to last after that sort of blunder, in a free market?
I wouldn’t give it six months.
And yet, the PLCB stores are allowed to exist in a manner that is chasing the air travel industry in terms of reducing customer service to laughable levels – a state of affairs enabled only because they operate in a monopolist, protected environment.
Time for the PLCB to die? Yeah, I think so. And securing that death would be simple – let them compete on the free market.
I wouldn’t give them six months.
Tonight, I will raise a glass to the recent plan by State Rep. and Pittsburgh Republican Mike Turzai to do just that (legislation that would auction off PA state stores to the public sector).
A glass of that imaginary Cab Franc, that is.
62 thoughts on “It’s Time For the PLCB to Die (or “There is NO Cabernet Franc”)”
Well written. But before they abolish and sell off the stores I still think the employees need a traveling dumbarse award. Each time you win you get a day off. That's a win for the consumer :)
HA! Dan, great idea! I'll buy the trophy! :-)
Of course, this wasn't a solitary employee! In most stores they're about 80 percent just as ignorant as this cab franc ignoramus. They know as much about wine as if they'd secured a job at the courthouse or city hall (and by the same means!) The one exception I've found is some of the staff at the Waterworks PLCB.
Joe, you and I have discussed the abolition of the PLCB previously, and you know where I stand (on and off-line). In this case, I have to argue that the ignorance of a solitary civil servant does not warrant the demise of a 620 store enterprise. I believe that it is far more a testament to a potential lack of education inherent to the system as it exists now. How many "legitimate" "wine professionals" are also out there in the mainstream spewing all manner of bogus crap? How many of them have you, yourself, argued with? I consider you a friend, and I have a great deal of respect for you, so in this case, i have to say that I don't think you gave this enough consideration. Just my two cents to a brother in wine.
Totally fair, Matt, and I respect your opinion. I should note that there is quite a bit of tongue-in-cheek action in this post. Having said that, I do indeed support the dissolution of the PLCB and the PA state-run wine store system.
This is just one of those "too classic to be ignored" circumstances – and we both know that these can be powerful political examples (not saying it's right, but the public tends to latch onto these).
Wine Dude, thanks for the commentary. On Matthew E's plea for tolerence with the PLCB stores, I'd like to mention one other figure : 2 percent. Of the roughly 100,000 wines released in the US every year (50k domestic, 50k imported), some bureaucrats in Harrisburg select the two percent that people in the state are permitted to purchase. In the entire state, we can purchase between 2,000 and 2,300 wines of ALL VINTAGES. So the real percentage figure is much lower than 2 percent. When I lived in New York, my wine merchant boasted he could order any of those 100,000 wines through his distributors and importers. In Pa… 2 percent and TFB if you want something else — buying out of state, on-line, or via mail is ILLEGAL. Would any people tolerate 2 percent access to books, TVs, breakfast cereals?
2%?!??? Now I am even **more** depressed!!!
Where did you get these numbers? Please cite your sources if they truly exist. And for all of you who wish to abolish the PLCB, just remember this … 2008-09 fiscal year:
TRANSFERRED TO THE STATE TREASURY
6% State and Local Sales Taxes=$109,490,825
18% State Liquor Tax=$266,332,120
Now assuming that all of these private companies pay their taxes, the first two line items can still be recouped. However, losing a quarter of a billion dollars every two years in revenue can never be recovered… unless …you raise taxes, and I'm sure you are all in favor of that as well!(sarcasm for those who don't recognize) The PLCB store that I am manager at currently has approximately 5000 wines alone! Not to mention the 10 of thousands of wines that are also available via Special Liquor Order. Would really love to know the store in which Cab Franc does not exist. I'm guessing it was a small store somewhere. Sadly, currently there are no listed codes for Cab Franc which simply means you must go to a premium Collection store of which there are 67 (I believe). Currently, there are 26 Luxury Items that are designated Cab Franc, and are available in select store, as well as another 38 available SLO. This does not include Chinon's 9 luxury items, 19 SLO Items, Saumer's- 6 luxury items, 8 SLO items. If you are looking for particular wines, please use the following link http://www.lcbapps.lcb.state.pa.us/webapp/Product…
Hi Chris – thanks for chiming in.
With reference to the $500m, to get a complete picture the operating expenses of the PLCB (quoted by Lew at http://noplcb.blogspot.com/2009/01/reason-13-thei… ) need to be included, which in the fiscal year ending in `07 was over $335m.
So in a way we're really talking about **$165m**, or thereabouts, not $500m (depending of course on the OE for for the `08-`09 fiscal year). Part of this expense seems to be in keeping under-performing stores open ( http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/08028/852743-85.st… ) which I'd offer isn't a sound business model.
Not exactly chump-change, but couple it with the facts that Pennsylvania’s underage drinking rate remains above average for the 50 states ( http://www.oas.samhsa.gov/2k6/stateUnderageDrinki… ) and the fact that the Commonwealth remains above average in DUI fatalities per mile driven ( http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/2009-12-07-dr… ) and it's tough to blame PA residents I think, if they conclude that the PLCB isn't delivering on all of its promises or potential value for money.
No doubt the buying power of the PLCB allows some discounts to the consumer, but I'd be willing to pay a bit more for unrestricted choice and competition.
As for the potential drop in revenue if the PLCB is privatized, PA House Republican Whip Mike Turzai has already offered legislation this year ( http://www.pahousegop.com/NewsItem.aspx?NewsID=87… ) that predicts that PA would see more revenue, not less ("new revenues from taxes that new businesses would be required to pay and will recoup revenues that are currently being lost due to Pennsylvania consumers leaving the state to purchase their wine and spirits").
Oh SNAP! Look at Joe bringing the facts! You bringing that sassy mouth of yours to Walla Walla soon?
Facts & figures are not snappy, Randy. Having said that, I will indeed be bringing the sass to Walla Walla. :)
Wow. Joe, perhaps it is that person's opinion that Bordeaux should revise it's varietal makeup (hundreds of years of winemaking aside). And by denying its (Cab Franc) existence he is therefore exerting his will upon Bordeaux style blends everywhere. Perhaps it's because of the tobacco and pepper that it imparts and he/she doesn't like that style of blend.
Maybe that person is a Malbec fanatic and feels that it's an under represented varietal, which doesn't make much sense with the recent surge in Malbec's poplularity.
I've always been skeptical of state run stores, regardless of product make up. It's time to let the consumer out of the nest, big government does few any favors.
Free the grapes (and the rest).
Hey Brian – never pegged you for a conspiracy theorist. :)
Joe, great post. I think you should go back to the store, and bring a bottle of Chappellet Cabernet Franc, along with some glasses and a corkscrew. Proceed to open the bottle, and pour a glass for this moron. As soon as said moron reaches for the glass, whisk it away, and say "sorry, evidently this is a figment of your imagination, as according to you, cab franc doesn't exist." Then go somewhere and share a bottle of this with people that will appreciate it.
Richard – that's sick & twisted and I LOVE it!
I agree, great response, Bwa-ha-ha-ha-ha.
Of course, bringing a "Pennsylvania-illegal" bottle into a store AND proceeding to open and serve it on premise will probably get you handcuffed and taken away by a PLCB SWAT team.
Well, Bob – we already know they aren't afraid to send the armed guards in when it comes to raids…
Funny. I grew up, for the most part, in PA (Poconos, what!), and I remember hearing my mother complain multiple times after coming home from state wine stores: she was (and still is) a big fan of Zinfandel, and she was repeatedly told that red Zinfandel didn't exist — didn't she mean WHITE Zinfandel? My mother would leave, sadly disappointed, with a bottle of whatever red she could get her hands on.
I thought, perhaps, this was a fluke of the late 80s, when knowledge of many wine varietals was still in nascent phases across the country. It seems that there's still a lot of learning to do.
Jolan – so now you're saying that BOTH Cab Franc and Zin don't exist?
Ok, now I'm really confused… ;-)
Jolan – I didn't consider at first that the distance from the Poconos to a PLCB wine tore might be just long enough to really get annoying after making the drive and discovering the lack of choices…. ouch!
I used to drink red zin back in my college days. I'd totally forgotten it until now.
I lived in PA for approx 3 months several years ago. Not only is the selection of wine at the State stores completely and utterly disgraceful, if you decide to give up on wine completely and drink beer you have to travel to a different state store to buy that. Heaven forbid you want cheese to go with your mediocre wine selection because for that you'd need to travel to your local grocery store (yet a third stop on your way to trying to forget that this system is completely ridiculous).
Hey Nova – guess how many Madeira selections the PLCB carries… ZERO. Choice rules! ;-)
Two Madeira selections at my store, and that's good considering how popular that wine is. I know these are really old posts, but to Nova C … No Selection of wines? Have you ever been in one of our bigger stores? … I didn't think so.
Scott, the trouble I have is that if I think your prices are too high, or if you don’t have something I want… what’s my recourse? Nada. There’s no competition, that’s an artificial construct.
I'm in Ohio, not PA, but I recently had an employee at a wine place (not state run) tell me Rioja was a grape variety, not a region. So perhaps if your PA person had asked for a wine FROM Cabernet Franc, they'd be enjoying it now? In the matrix?
Holly – cunning plan, hadn't thought of that!
I think the truly bizarre thing about this (these) stories of state wine stores is not the lack of knowledge on part of the employees, but the poor customer service. There is a lot to know about in the world of wine, and while recognizing a few (very common) varietals may seem like a gross offense, I'd like to point out that most of us have been there at one time* — heck, I grew up thinking that 1) red Zinfandel was a mythical, unobtainable libation and 2) my mother must have been a little nuts.
What's surprising to me is that the employee did not admit that he or she was not familiar with that varietal, apologize for the store not carrying the wine, and offer to call someone, somewhere to find where the customer might find relief in a bottle.
*Though true, most of us have not been there while selling them.
Hey Jolan – nice use of the footnote! :-)
While I do agree with you, I also think that the lack of customer focus is systemic and ultimately symptomatic of a deeper issue, which is that a business operating in a government-protected monopoly has no incentive to enhance customer service because effectively there is no competition. It's the lack of free market influence that should really, really concern consumers in this case, because the only reason it's allowed to exist is to maximize state coffers, and presumably to control the distribution of alcohol so it's out of the hands of minors, minimizes drunk driving accidents, and generally protects PA citizens.
The trouble is, it FAILS AT ALL OF THE ABOVE REASONS FOR ITS VERY EXISTENCE.
1) Multiple studies have shown that the state monopoly system is actually **depriving** PA of tax revenue vs. a system more closely aligned to the free market, &
2) In just about every published statistical study on the subject, PA is smack-dab in the middle of U.S. states when it comes to incidents of drunk driving/fatalities and alcohol getting to minors. In other words, many states that do NOT have a monopoly control system OUTPERFORM the state of PA in those stats.
Now I hope people understand the bile that I am spewing as a PA resident. :-)
I'm a native Philadelphian now living in nearby NJ, and I've hoped for a long time that PA would get out of the wine business. But here is my biggest concern with that probably-still-too-distant prospect of the State selling off stores or licenses: only the BIG will win.
My best example is right here in NJ, where the impossible-to-get retail license has caused a bifurcation among stores. They're either small 'mom & pop' stores with poor selection and no wine knowledge, or 'Mega' stores with too much selection and little or no really interesting wines, usually also with little or no real wine knowledge. Granted, I come from the bias of having worked in a small, specialty wine store (not close to home, of course). You know, the kind of store where the selection may not run into the thousands and you won't find the same labels as in every other store, but where you know every wine is brought in on taste or quality or for some compelling reason other than price or rebate from the mega-wine distributor.
My dream is that as Pennsylvania one day gets out of the wine business, this type of retailer can find a home. For Bacchus' sake, Tennessee has a boutique wine store but the nation's 5th largest city doesn't?!?! I urge the wine community that strives for the end of the PLCB to incorporate this sort of thinking into their work now. It would be a shame for PA to go from PLCB stores to nothing but Big Box stores because the auction process shuts out small independents who really care about selection, service and wine education.
Fantastic point, Jeff – and I agree that's a legitimate risk. I do think it could be mitigated somewhat by allowing **affordable** DTC sales, however. That doesn't help the small producers get in front of consumer eyeballs but does help them get sales to consumers that already know about them.
A big issue remains the cost of being able to do that in PA, even if the PLCB were to follow its logical conclusion and go the way of the dinosaur. Licensing costs for producers and distributors is prohibitively expensive in PA and I doubt that situation will change anytime soon – unfortunately, that is also bad for consumers since it promotes congregation of wine sales into the those with the deepest pockets :-(.
I'll avoid the Union discussion, which is one of the other venomous heads on this hydra of an issue…
Maybe the PLCB doesn't like green pepper in their wine so that's why they pretend it doesn't exist? Green peppers everywhere should be outraged.
Seriously, though, that's effed. I thought MA was bad with the shipping stuff but that's only because I didn't know the extent of *this*. I hope PA residents can kill the system and kill it hard. Free choice = awesome.
Thanks, Amanda – not holding my breath, the system brings in $$$ billions…
HOW DID I NOT KNOW YOU LIVE IN PA?!
Well, it is kind of obvious that I live in PA, right….? ;-)
This explains the rather slow sales of my Cabernet Franc.
Sorry, Gordon – for a second there I thought you said "Cabernet Franc" which we now know doesn't exist; at least, not in PA…
Years ago I woned and ooperated a steak house restaurant and night club. Getting liquor or wine from the state government stores was worse than root canal without anesthesia!
Ron – I can only imagine…
Yowser….and I thought the Washington State Liquor Control Board (WSLCB) was bad??? They only stick us with the highest rate of taxation in the US, but I digress. There is a move afoot (spear-headed by Costco) to petition to get Initiative 1000 on the Ballot in November to get the State out of the Liquor Business and allow competition to dictate prices.
As you might imagine, the usual suspects are lined up in opposition (Unions, Distributors, and other middlemen who add no value to the product). While wineries can sell direct to the consumer and wine is also sold in Grocery Stores/other outlets, the State dictates a 3-tiered system/pricing arrangements which seriously hinders commerce, all in the name of safety/temperance.
As a vigneron who produces Cabernet Franc, Malbec, and Petit Verdot (amoung other varietals), I feel your pain. Come visit us in the Yakima River Canyon, sit on the veranda, drink some good wine (got any?), and watch the grapes grow. You may not want to leave.
Sure, Coug – tempt me with your wares, already! :-)
I've been watching that Costco initiative and (mostly) cheering it on from the sidelines!
Joe:____Please explain why the unions continue to get a pass in these discussions? When it is the distributors that are holding up progress, the gloves come off… when it's the unions, you choose to avoid the subject? Let's face it, no unions, and this system would have been privatized years ago. (Most likely when Newman was hired to run the conversion) I am very sympathetic to the union members, as clearly there would be a lot of public sector jobs lost, but that happens in the private sector on a daily basis.
PA guy – point duly noted. And it's a good one – I've not touched on that aspect in these pages yet. Consider this my acceptance of the gauntlet, and I'll see what I can research on that for any future post on the PLCB topic.
Just re-read the post from the PLCB store manager, and fortunately this person sells wine and is not an economist. First of all, substantial money would be raised in the sale / auction of the existing stores. Secondly, tax receipts will clearly rise as fewer Pennsylvanians flee to border states. Thirdly, each of the new private stores would be paying licensing fees, renewal fees, etc… which would also eat into the "profits" of $125,000,000. I say "profits", because if you read the income statements, they transferred 125 milliion, but only had 89 million in profits. (Had to eat into their rainy day fund a bit… didn't want to mention that did you?) 89 million in profits in a high margin business on 1.8 billion in sales??? Where is all the money going?
Also, I could not find the pension dollars that they have to put away each year in the budget numbers. Does that come out of the general funds or the PLCB budget specifically? Another set of hidden funds!
And finally, how much corporate or real estate taxes are collected from each of the 600+ stores. ZERO!!
Interesting about the real estate taxes – I wasn't aware of that.
I have read the entire conversation and it seems to me that you are a man who is after facts and the truth. First, I would sincerely like to apologize for any encounters you’ve had with the PLCB that have resulted in a less-than-delightful experience. That is not what the PLCB is about, and I think you would agree that 1 PLCB employee (who thinks Cabernet Franc doesn’t exist) does not speak for the entire Operation. I am not a manager in the PLCB, I am just a lowly Clerk 1 and have been for 8 years. I have worked at 2 of the top 3 stores in the state. I understand you’re not a fan of a State-Controlled Liquor Store System and it would be naïve of me to think I can change your mind…but humor me.
While I agree that a state-run operation may not optimize capitalism, I fail to see how privatizing everything will bring more jobs to hard-working Pennsylvanians. Sure, there will be a huge revenue boost from the sales of the stores and I’m sure close to all of them would be sold. Now, only 2/3 of small businesses survive the first 2 years and less then 50% make it past 4 years (http://www.gaebler.com/Small-Business-Failure-Rates.htm) , I think there might be a little more security with a State-run system.
What people fail to realize is that PA is the largest California wine buyer in the world BECAUSE it is government controlled. For example, the Chairman’s Selection program has brought a ton of good wines from around the world, not just California, to PA residents and non-PA residents. I have people from out of state come, to the store I work at, twice a month to stock up on wine because we have huge deals. The State has wineries from California coming to the table wanting to be in the program that used to turn their nose up at us. We were able to purchase the ‘06 vintage of Clare Luce Abbey Cabernet Sauvignon (which rated pretty high)for less than half price, no other state can sell you that same bottle without taking a loss on it. Clare Luce is quoted at $115 a bottle and we sold it for $25.99 and if anyone is doing their research the ’06 vintage is the last one for Clare Luce…they were unable to keep the vineyard due to extenuating circumstances. We have Two Hands Ares 06 Shiraz for $79.99 and that supposed to be a $200 bottle. These are the kinds of deals that the State can offer. I guarantee the guy in NY (who boasted he could any of the 100,000 California that were released ) wasn’t able to get Clare Luce for that price.
I take my job very seriously. Wine is also a hobby for me so I enjoy it. At the store I work at we have a mailing list for any customer who would like to be on it. A couple times a month the wine specialist at the store sends an email that has an attachment of all the new wines we’ve received recently, (1winedude – I will email it to you). I, personally, tag and catalog all the new wines that arrive at the store and input them into the spreadsheet. The wine specialist spends hours of his own time at home finding ratings for every single wine we put out to sell. The ratings work in 2 ways…the ratings go on the spreadsheet and they are printed out and displayed with the bottle for customer’s to read in the store. We go above and beyond the call of duty to make sure everyone is informed about all the different wines there are in the world. Thanks for your time.
Hey Clerk – THANK YOU for chiming in on the discussion!
I've no doubt that PLCB stores have diamonds like you in their rough. The fact that you even considered joining the discussion here despite my ranting and raving about the PLCB is a HUGE testament to how seriously you do take your role and I thank you for both (as the owner of this website AND as a PA state resident!).
I've also no doubt that the PLCB's buying power in some cases helps consumers – but that power wasn't garnered via success in a free market; in a way, the power is 'artificial' in that it's a result of a protected monopoly.
These conversations are painful for me becasue we are talking about real people, real jobs and real families. However, the idea that the people of PA are being well served by the current system is laughable. 625 stores?? A plan to expand to 750 or so? NJ has approximately 2000! While the Chairman's Selections certainly draws in out of staters to cherry pick those wines, have you seen the size of the border stores in NJ and DE, where half the cars in the parking lot are from PA?
To the person concerned about too many mega-stores being created, I suspect you just have a problem with big stores, as many of these big stores have many more small production, interesting wines than the quaint little shops. With that said, there are many, many small boutique wine stores in NJ. It is a vibrant wine market with wine availability rivaled only by New York.
I am a PLCB clerk. I got into this job out of my love of wine and had taken many available wine courses before ever considering this work. I knew of and had tried Cabernet Franc long before considering this work. I've attended tastings at wineries wherever we vacation. I have not yet been offered the wine and spirits training within the system, but eventually I will be able to sit for retail wine specialist……all not out of my pocket, like it would be in the private sector. Thats a win for me!
Dieselisa – I'm happy to read this comment, it gives me some hope that the situation can eventually change in PA.
Dieselisa, I have only been with the Wine & Spirits for about 3 years and I've been all the way through the advanced wine tasting course. If you have not had any training, how long have you worked with us? Are you just a seasonal employee or are you just a liar that doesn't even work with us? Just curious.
Scott, this is an old post, you’re unlikely to get a response this long after it first aired, I’m afraid.
I wish the system would change. If the state treated LCB like it were contracting for road repair, pensions, or fleet maintenance, half the buyers would be in jail. Unlike road repair, where there are agreed upon standards and the lowest price wins, in LCB's case, he ability for the senior buyers to determine where millions of dollars are spent benefits … them fist, the largest wineries second, and well, PA consumers last. I thought bribery was illegal, but in LCB's case, it is just part of the process…
Frustrated – OUCH! Of course, can't say I disagree with you! :(
Run the LCB like Penn DOT. Penn DOT loses money every year……We make money to keep your taxes down. Frustrated, Do you even live in PA?
Scott, the plcb isn’t profitable. The very large taxes and fees levied by the Commonwealth are very profitable, and account for almost all of the money brought back to PA through the sale and distribution of alcohol. You’re either lying, have access to information that major media/news sources don’t (articles about this have been run as recently add this week!), or are basing your interpretation on incorrect information. Why would we need the plcb to collect those same taxes? We wouldn’t, those same taxes would be collected in a privatized system. Note, the union jobs would be in trouble, for sure, but that’s a different issue.
The PLCB needs privatized as soon as can be done. It is run by a little boys club, that likes to intimidate,
retaliate, blatantly lie, whatever, like spoiled children who have had their way too long.
The managers pad their pensions all the time. Where else could you add 50 hours of overtime to each weeks pay? Or add overtime for putting your lunch away? (IF you are a favorite of the manager, you too can share his/her perks). Here's a high mark……..try to have a disabled person that was HIRED by the PLCB….fired or quit, because now he/she can't give good customer service because of their disability.! What morals these people don't have.
Is there any law agency that could clean this "club" up? We , the tax payers are their bread and butter and believe me , they have their bread WELL BUTTERED. Isn't this called theft or embezzlement in other businesses?
Sem – agree that all of that stuff sucks, but do you have evidence for those claims?
Wouldn't an investigation, or serious audit, or having the state AG look at time cards be evidence?
i.e time cards, pay stubs, tax audits, i.e.
then again, no one 'wants' to take on this elephant.
It is illegal to falsify the above forementioned
WE, the taxpayers of PA are 'funding' this
Sem – it would, but you’ve not linked to or cited anything in support of those.
SEM yes wine dude I have given facts…other than naming the store. I guess you are in favor of keeping the status quo and managers and their managers NOT doing the jobs they receive a GREAT paycheck for. Harrisburg doesn't check a thing. Would "YOU" not see 50 hours of overtime on a regular basis as a FLAG? The co workers at the store trying to make the handicap person 'go' would have to stand up for him…and he himself should grievance his union. I am leaving it at that!
Sem, no, I’m trying to ensure that you don’t get sued by somebody at the plcb for libel…
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